Very interesting article. I searched articles about services for cleaning ventilation systems. But I have some questions. For cleaning ventilation system used special products for cleaning. Can I know in company manager about, which type of cleaning products they use? Your family members may be allergic in some components. It’s very big problem. And one more problem it’s how to choose the right company in Internet. Sometimes I don’t have much time to find a company in my town and I use the Internet. But I find a lot of company. It is very popular services, for example, Stanley Steemer – https://www.stanleysteemer.com/ or my local not very popular service, for example, AllstatesAirDuctPro – http://allstatesairductpro.us/. Can I understand the company is professional or not, only looking through the website? What must I check on the website? Who has helpful information? I will very grateful for your help. Links I add for understanding my problem. They are random and not for advertising.


The best way to ensure indoor air quality and avoid replacing your A/C system is to clean your ducts. Duct cleaning can be as simple as dusting out the vents or something more in-depth like having a professional look through them. While it sounds daunting, what you gain in keeping them clean is much better than the initial cost. Need help finding a duct cleaning service near you? Enter your zip code to be connected today to local air duct cleaning companies.
Duct cleaning is also important for energy saving. The U.S. Department of Energy specifies that almost half of the energy used for heating or cooling a home is wasted due to that contaminants pulled into it. These pollutants make your HVAC system work harder to deliver the desired output and also bring down its longevity. Therefore it is quite essential to get the ducts cleaned periodically.
I noticed a lot of negative feedback, though unfortunately there are many dishonest companies out there. I currently work with a company that cleans duct work and we DO NOT use any scare tactics or up sell services or equipment. Once every 10years of course there are exceptions. We clean supply, returns, air handler, housing, motor, and fan. Though be discerning when qualifying anyone to work in your home. I would ask for REAL REFERENCES to contact.
When you hire someone to put up wallpaper or build a fence, it's easy to see whether it's a good job. But with services like air duct cleaning, there's much more risk of fraud because the homeowner can't easily check the work. A disreputable company may not have the proper equipment to do a quality air duct cleaning job, may overcharge you, may leave the ducts dirty or filled with debris and may even do costly damage to your home's HVAC system. Some companies entice you with very low offers, such as $59 for a whole-house cleaning, then pile on extra charges. 

Despite Bergendahl's experience, Vinick says NADCA's certification standards have improved the situation. "A lot of [service companies] weren't going about it the correct way," he says. “We have an anti-fraud task force, and we’ve gone after some fraudulent duct cleaners with the help of state attorneys general.” He suggests that in addition to NADCA membership, homeowners make sure their cleaners are an established business, have appropriate insurance and are registered to do business in their state and locality.
Our cleaning technicians are also skilled in Dust Mite Removal and work within a short time to purify your air and improve the health of your home. We have advanced equipment that is very effective in removing your dust mites. We offer a superior air duct cleaning system that takes its time to provide you with the service that you need at the time that you need it. Call and Get Your Special Offer Today!
I called Air Duct Dallas for an emergency service after our HVAC system started making horrible sounds. The answered our call immediately and we had someone at our door ready to do an inspection and fix any issues in no time. They were able to determine the problem and repair it on the same day. One of the ducts was particularly clogged, and that was causing the horrible noises. They explained the problem thoroughly and gave us a reasonable estimate. I would recommend them to anyone!
20 yrs ago I bought the house I am in and a Central H/A was installed at that time. At the beginning of ea season I have the unit serviced. Every yr since I have owned the house I have had to have freon added and been told that I must have a freon leak. Fast forward to this yr when I hired a new company to do the service. They went up into the attic as part of their overall servicing. Nobody else has ever done that. He came down showing me pics on his camera phone of ducts that were not even connected to anything and in my estimation have probably been laying there for 20 yrs. Of course he fixed this. I have not needed freon this year either. I have been complaining to friends about the huge amount of dust and how I can't keep up with the cleaning away of it for a long time. Now it makes so much sense.To me it is like that duct work was just up there laying around and every time my unit was blowing, all the insulation, debris, dust and whatever else over the years was just randomly filling up those ducts. What now that they are re-connected? Will it be better? Or am I someone that needs to have my ducts cleaned? I am so confused after reading all these comments. Can one of you experts tell me what you would do before I spend a bunch of money that I don't really have? Thank you for any input you can provide. Also, feel free to respond to email address denise@digitalflak.com

I thought the price advertised at 129.95 for duct cleaning was great and called to clean our ducts. When they came in to do the the job I could not be home and my wife dealt with them. My wife ended up paying 954.00. They convinced my wife that there was 1.5 inches of mold built up on the Evaporators and coils. It is not the money, my wife could not go to the basement to witness the mold build up or the coil fouling. We have not cleaned our ducts for at least 10 years. The last price we paid for our duct cleaning was 150.00. My concern is that they told my wife not to turn on the heat for 2 hours due the strong chemicals they used to kill the mold. Are these chemicals approved as safe?
Duct cleaning is also important for energy saving. The U.S. Department of Energy specifies that almost half of the energy used for heating or cooling a home is wasted due to that contaminants pulled into it. These pollutants make your HVAC system work harder to deliver the desired output and also bring down its longevity. Therefore it is quite essential to get the ducts cleaned periodically.
Do not hire duct cleaners who make sweeping claims about the health benefits of duct cleaning — such claims are unsubstantiated. Do not hire duct cleaners who recommend duct cleaning as a routine part of your heating and cooling system maintenance. You should also be wary of duct cleaners who claim to be certified by EPA. Note: EPA neither establishes duct cleaning standards nor certifies, endorses, or approves duct cleaning companies.
You should also have air ducts cleaned after recent water contamination or water damage to prevent mold; after renovations or remodeling to ensure debris and dust didn’t settle in the vents and ducts; if you are having problems with allergies or asthma; or when you are moving into a newly purchased home, especially if the previous owners smoked or had pets. The National Air Duct Cleaners Association (NADCA) recommends getting your air ducts cleaned every three to five years, or every two to three years in regions where homeowners use their air conditioning and heater for many months of the year, while the EPA suggests homeowners have duct cleaning done as needed.

I’m having my duct work cleaned this Saturday. Have a coupon for $49 through Amazon. Job normally $249. Had my basement remodeled about 18 months ago. The contractors were very thorough at blocking the vents, as far as I can tell. The offer is for HVAC and dryer vent cleaning. My house is 11 years old. I figured, $49 is not much. I appreciate your tips on not getting talked into any additional service, not to use solvents to clean, the certification information and before and after pictures. Very useful and I’ll be sure that all I spend is the $49 for the voucher.
I purchased a Groupon for cleaning of unlimited air ducts and one return vent for $39. I should have checked into their hours first because they only offer services during normal business hours. So, with no evenings or weekends available you have to take time off work. I asked Groupon for a refund when I realized this and they refused because it wasn’t within the three day window. Then they didn’t even show up or call for the appointment. I called them after they were an hour late and they were going to call the local dispatch office and have them call me back within 15 minutes. I did not receive that call. I called again and was told I would get a call back from a manager. That didn’t happen either. So I asked Groupon for a refund again and they gave me Groupon bucks. When the survey came asking if I was satisfied with the Groupon customer service I said no, I want real money. I got my real refund the next day. Seems to me Groupon should stop dealing with these companies.
I live in Port Orange, FL. I purchased a double wide mobile home and was saddened to learn that the previous owners were HEAVY smokers! They did a good job “hiding” the smoke smell the day we viewed this place. I did not have a home inspection done unfortunately. My question is: can duct cleaning remove the smoke smell from this place. The ceilings have been treated with Kilz and paint. I personally scrubbed down every wall, floor or surface. I also purchased a ODORFREE OZONE machine. It seemed to remove the odor for a short period of time but my friends are again complaining about the “smoke” odor in my home. The Ozone machine was $400 and I’m terribly upset that it didn’t clean the air as was promised.
I am very interested by your post. We recently had a lead inspection on our property and one thing the lead inspector suggested was to get the air ducts cleaned out. We had our ducts cleaned last year after we under went a large renovation project (since we have a toddler in the house). This year we decided to go for lead compliance and had all our lead removed (we moved out for the work). Recently, my son had a false positive lead test, which prompted us to get a lead dust inspection around the house (including having the vents dust-wiped on the inside). The levels inside the ducts weren't crazy high (but more than would be acceptable for a floor). As it turned out my son's lead levels are very low (but not zero). Is it possible however that lead dust from the inside of a vent can come out? Would this be a scenario where you think air duct cleaning would be beneficial?
I did the $49.00 Groupon they just left. Basiclly all they did was stick a shop vac type hose into the vent supply and one return. I also had the dryer done. the person in charge pointed to the main return inside my humidifier and said it needed cleaning. I explained that I was in facility maintaince and would deal with it myself. After that they finished the vac and didn’t try any other sales pitch. I should have read the reviews before I bought this wast of money and time.

Most organizations concerned with duct cleaning, including EPA, NADCA, NAIMA and the Sheet Metal and Air Conditioning Contractors' National Association (SMACNA) do not currently recommend the routine use of sealants to encapsulate contaminants in any type of duct. Instances when the use of sealants to encapsulate the duct surfaces may be appropriate include the repair of damaged fiber glass insulation or when combating fire damage within ducts. Sealants should never be used on wet duct liner, to cover actively growing mold, or to cover debris in the ducts, and should only be applied after cleaning according to NADCA or other appropriate guidelines or standards.
I spent a lot of time reading all these posts and frankly I can’t believe the way some people think. 1. If there is dust and dirt of any kind in my HVAC system I want it out, the mentality that it can stay there and it’s fine is fulish as the system turns on and off microscopic particulates will move in and out of your living space and you will definitely breath them in. The air quality of your home or office will only be as clean as the system that produces it. We don’t not clean things simply because we can’t see them, it’s what we can’t see that can do the most harm. Dust will build up in a system fairly quickly and will get damp at times allowing mold to grow and mold releases spores without any movement as part of its defense meconisam so don’t tell me that when your system turns on it won’t blow the spores out into the living spaces of your home. A build up of dust will cause failures to your system over time, equipment that works harder to do its job will run hotter with more strain and this will lead to brake downs and until then the system will run less efficient then it should. The system was engineered to move a certain volume of air through a specific duct size, when that duct size starts to become narowed down with dust build up your system has to work harder to move that air this is why you will end up with a loss of efficiency and eventually breakdowns or failures. I have seen systems develop a significant amount of dust build up in as little as two years, just look at how fast the filter gets clogged up and it isn’t all that hard to believe. As for all the scams that are out there they hurt the industry because people can’t decipher between them and the legitimate companies, BBB is helpful. Recommendations from HVAC contractors will be a good resource and a good company will provide a written estimate with a complete brake down of what they are going to do and why, most of which is comen sence once they explain it to you, then if you spend about 5 minutes watching them once they are set up you can see they are doing what they said they would do and let’s get real would you do a job that should take approx 3 hours per system for $29/$39/59 or something close to that, if you think you are going to get a good job from a comp that has to make money at that price you shouldn’t be mad at anyone but your self for trying to get quality work at a scam price. If it’s done right it will be very beneficial and depending on the size of your system and where you are in the world it’s going to cost you approx $300 to $600 per system large and or older systems may cost even more. Remember a quality job isn’t wasting money but a lousy job is, even if it’s only $29. I’d rather spend $600 on a quality job then $29 on a lousy job!! Good luck..
in response to this reply " should your ducts be cleaned", i have to politely correct the person who answered this. you are not using common sense. first, most of the country uses metal duct work, so for you to say what you did, is wrong. second, the duct system in a house is a circulatory system. that means it draws air into the furnace, it gets filtered, and then it is blown out into the house to heat or cool. So, obviously that air is being brought into the house from somewhere right? Yes, its coming from the outside where there are many allergens and dust particles . For you to says that about whether a duct system is sealed or not, makes no difference. The air is coming from somewhere right? It has to originate from somewhere right? Just look on top of your cieling fan. If there is a bunch of dust up there, then there is obviously a bunch in your ducts. And the duct air is being circulated every day, and every hour through your house. Its simple, dust collects everywhere in your house. Imagine if you never dusted your shelves, or tv? There would be a ton of dust after a while. Well, now think about the air in the duct system. Of course theres gonna be a ton of dust in there. For you to say that it is not benififcial to clean the ducts, is plain ignorant. 90% of the air we breathe is in our household. Wouldnt you want that air to be as dust and allergen free? I could go on for hours about the benifits of duct cleaning, but i just wanted to make a quick point that the person whose says it is not benificial to clean them, is not using common sense. Not to mention, giving the people who clean ducts for a living, a bad name. Use your head .
I agree, if you replace (or wash depending on type) your air filters regularly AND vaccum, then you probably don't need the ducts or air coils cleaned. However, if you purchase a pre-owned home, and the previous owners did not regularly change the air filter or vaccum the home, then duct cleaning is worth the expense especially if you are sensitive to allergens. Especially if the previous owners had pets.
Despite Bergendahl's experience, Vinick says NADCA's certification standards have improved the situation. "A lot of [service companies] weren't going about it the correct way," he says. “We have an anti-fraud task force, and we’ve gone after some fraudulent duct cleaners with the help of state attorneys general.” He suggests that in addition to NADCA membership, homeowners make sure their cleaners are an established business, have appropriate insurance and are registered to do business in their state and locality.
Air duct cleaning is done by heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) professionals. The pros use industrial-strength, truck-mounted vacuums and powerful brushes and hoses to clean inside the metal ducts that make up your forced air heating and cooling system. The Environmental Protection Agency recommends duct cleaning if there is “substantial visible mold growth inside hard surface ducts, ducts that are infested with vermin such as rodents or insects, or ducts that are clogged with excessive amounts of dust and debris and/or particles are actually released into the home from your supply registers.”
What if you move into a 20 year old house and find that the people who owned it previously NEVER replaced the filter? It was so dirty that the HVAC system did not work at all. For most people - duct cleaning is NOT a waste of time or money. You must not have allergies. I have very bad ones plus asthma. It makes it very hard for me if I don't get it done every few years. By the way - the ducts get dusty just sitting there - especially without air going through them. Dust settles on them just like it does the furniture.
I thought the price advertised at 129.95 for duct cleaning was great and called to clean our ducts. When they came in to do the the job I could not be home and my wife dealt with them. My wife ended up paying 954.00. They convinced my wife that there was 1.5 inches of mold built up on the Evaporators and coils. It is not the money, my wife could not go to the basement to witness the mold build up or the coil fouling. We have not cleaned our ducts for at least 10 years. The last price we paid for our duct cleaning was 150.00. My concern is that they told my wife not to turn on the heat for 2 hours due the strong chemicals they used to kill the mold. Are these chemicals approved as safe?
All these pro duct cleaners answer with "it's common sense, everything operates better when cleaner" etc. But your explanation is correct. Especially so with flex tube ducting where dust gets "stuck" between the lowest valleys (between wire coil supports) where air flow is drastically reduced -- which is more than 50 pct of the entire interior surface area of the flex ducting. That sounds like a bad thing but also has a good effect of trapping dust from escaping.
Manufacturers of products marketed to coat and encapsulate duct surfaces claim that these sealants prevent dust and dirt particles inside air ducts from being released into the air. As with biocides, a sealant is often applied by spraying it into the operating duct system. Laboratory tests indicate that materials introduced in this manner tend not to completely coat the duct surface. Application of sealants may also affect the acoustical (noise) and fire retarding characteristics of fiber glass lined or constructed ducts and may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.
Quality and price should come hand in hand, a too-good-to-be-true price for an efficient air duct cleaning will not give you the quality that you wanted. To make sure you are getting your money’s worth, check reviews of air duct cleaning companies, certifications from industry since this work requires continuous learning due to new techniques and research breakthrough from time to time. My mom is located in Arizona and they trust J&M Restoration air duct cleaning company, they have an A+ BBB rating, they used EPA approved sanitizing agents, their technicians are NADCA certified, and the company is certified by the Institute of Inspection, cleaning and Restoration. Make sure to shop around and get written estimates first.
Duct cleaning is also important for energy saving. The U.S. Department of Energy specifies that almost half of the energy used for heating or cooling a home is wasted due to that contaminants pulled into it. These pollutants make your HVAC system work harder to deliver the desired output and also bring down its longevity. Therefore it is quite essential to get the ducts cleaned periodically.
I guess, I will start with saying that air duct cleaning is almost never needed. It is not a scam, but it is certainly something that uneducated homeowners get suckered into. In regards to air flow, a well balanced HVAC system should be able to deliver more than enough air flow. If you are not getting good air flow, it's because your system may be out of balance. Additionally, regular cleaning/changing of the air filters will solve about 95% of your problem. Though you would be surprised how many people either a. don't have a filter or b. don't know about it and leave it there for 10+years. a washable one should be cleaned every 6 months(spring and fall) and a disposable one should be replaced every 3-4 months.
The amount of time it takes to clean a residential HVAC system depends on many variables such as the size of the home, the number of systems, the extent of the contamination and the number of HVAC cleaners performing the job. Ask at least two contractors to inspect your system and give you a time estimate for your particular system. This will give you a general idea of how long the job should take as well as an idea of how thoroughly the contractor plans to do the job.
I read your article with interest and think it is a good start. One service that is always talked about is fogging ductwork for sanitizing. Many companies offer this service for disinfecting or adding a clean smell to the ductwork. Before any chemical or disinfectant is used, please read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet). You might be surprise on what you are putting into the air stream. This is a high profit service and should be explored thoroughly before purchasing,
The Environmental Protection Agency says that “duct cleaning services typically – but not always – range in cost from $450 to $1000 per heating and cooling system, depending on the services offered, the size of the system to be cleaned, system accessibility, climactic region, and level of contamination” and type of duct material. Consumers should beware of air duct cleaning companies that making sweeping claims about the health benefits of duct cleaning – such claims are unsubstantiated. Consumers should also beware of “blow-and-go” air duct cleaning companies. These companies often charge a nominal fee and do a poor job of cleaning the heating and cooling system. These companies may also persuade the consumer into unneeded services with and/or without their permission. (If you have knowledge of a practicing “blow-and-go” air duct cleaner, contact your local Better Business Bureau to report the company, and your local, federal, and state elected officials to demand legislation.)
 The A/C System Cleaning and restoration industry has become a very lucrative bait and switch industry that many Carpet cleaning companies, Maid services, as well as plumbing or handyman service companies are adding on to there services. These add-ons are not fully certified, trained or even have any experience in the HVAC industry. These companies are the reason prices and quality of work are all over the place. If you are looking to make a smart decision for your home a professional Duct Cleaning service will protect you for 5-7 years. This info comes from NADCA (National Air Duct Cleaning Association) which is the closest thing to a license we have for duct cleaning. They have a great site that explains this process and pricing much more in depth and factual than what has been written here. This organization is working very hard to get these bad companies exposed and out of this industry. So in saying that do your research! Green Duct Decontamination is a certified company with certified technicians that take this work very seriously. We can not have these low rated unprofessional companies paste a bad name for an entire industry. Stay away from anything under 250$ for a full duct clean this is not feasible, go look at NADCA.com and you will understand why and what these companies are doing to rob you of your dollar.

I have been a plumbing/gas/hvac tech for 19 years, before that I installed ductwork in commercial buildings and office towers. As the article states, unless you have undergone some type of extensive reno, or ducts have become contaminated, paying for cleaning is pointless. Its one thing if you have a 30 year old home that has never had a duct cleaning and you can actually see mounds of dust built up , especially in the return side, then go for it. Keep in mind that most duct cleaning companies will only get 80% of the dust , or less at best. Keep in mind that most of the dust in your home is lint from clothes and linens, and skin cells from you and your pets and is constantly being generated. Dust that builds up in ductwork , generally stays in the ductwork. The power of suggestion, scare tactics, up sell!!!
in response to this reply " should your ducts be cleaned", i have to politely correct the person who answered this. you are not using common sense. first, most of the country uses metal duct work, so for you to say what you did, is wrong. second, the duct system in a house is a circulatory system. that means it draws air into the furnace, it gets filtered, and then it is blown out into the house to heat or cool. So, obviously that air is being brought into the house from somewhere right? Yes, its coming from the outside where there are many allergens and dust particles . For you to says that about whether a duct system is sealed or not, makes no difference. The air is coming from somewhere right? It has to originate from somewhere right? Just look on top of your cieling fan. If there is a bunch of dust up there, then there is obviously a bunch in your ducts. And the duct air is being circulated every day, and every hour through your house. Its simple, dust collects everywhere in your house. Imagine if you never dusted your shelves, or tv? There would be a ton of dust after a while. Well, now think about the air in the duct system. Of course theres gonna be a ton of dust in there. For you to say that it is not benififcial to clean the ducts, is plain ignorant. 90% of the air we breathe is in our household. Wouldnt you want that air to be as dust and allergen free? I could go on for hours about the benifits of duct cleaning, but i just wanted to make a quick point that the person whose says it is not benificial to clean them, is not using common sense. Not to mention, giving the people who clean ducts for a living, a bad name. Use your head .
Duct cleaning is a band aid, like washing you hands is. Under your description, why wash your hands more than once? If it gets cleaned once, it shouldn't get dirty again. Well that is, unless they touch something dirty. Keeping your hands completely clean is virtually impossible. Same as keeping dust out of your home. You clean your ducts and over a 3-5 year span they get dirty again. Also, duct cleaners are not licensed but should be certified by NADCA(National Air Duct Cleaning Association).
My vent covers have lots of mildew. They look bad! I live in a very humid climate in a condo. The handyman here has offered to take those down, wash them, sand, & then spray paint them with a mildew resistant paint. He said that he will leave them off overnight to dry. I am wondering if this is safe to breath the AC blowing out into the open all night??. ! Guess it is better than the mildew!?
There are endless service providers who offer services of cleaning air ducts. Before you hire one of them, ensure that the provider agrees to clean all the components of your HVAC system. Always keep in mind that missing out on a component or just ignoring it would mean re-contamination of the entire system, negating the probable benefits. It would also be a sheer waste of money.
One of the best ways to know if your ducts or vents need to be cleaned is to just check them. Your eyes will be able to check for indications of mold, dust or pollen buildup. You might also be able to smell the presence of mold, which would be a clear indicator. Ductwork will have some buildup of dust, since the return registrars pull air back in. However, this doesn't mean your ducts have too much debris, and you can easily clean them with a duster or vacuum.
I did the $49.00 Groupon they just left. Basiclly all they did was stick a shop vac type hose into the vent supply and one return. I also had the dryer done. the person in charge pointed to the main return inside my humidifier and said it needed cleaning. I explained that I was in facility maintaince and would deal with it myself. After that they finished the vac and didn’t try any other sales pitch. I should have read the reviews before I bought this wast of money and time.

I am in need of HVAC ADVICE!! I need a new furnace badly, mine is cracked. I have bought both a 95 % AFUE furnace and a 5 Ton evap coil, I figured it should all be replaced at once for both cost and efficency. My question is with all the negaitive things I have heard about companies ripping you off, what type of price should I pay someone for putting in those two items and bringing everything in my attic up to code? I have been quoted $550 - $ 3300. Wide margin here!! Then of course comes the licencing part!! I know in my heart that I should use a licenced contractor but I have had such bad luck and prices from them that honestly one that was licened in Ga. and just not here in TN and is a tech. which charges 1100 - 2200 less sounds good as so long as I pay some type of Profenial HVAC person say $100 to inspect the work after its done and before I pay them.
I hope that those customers you have with breathing problems don't follow your advice too closely. You are doing them a disservice. Dirt in your ducts does not always stay there, depending on what the contaminants are. I bet you tell your customers not to worry about mold either- just to kill it with bleach. Educate yourself before opening your mouth- You may kill someone someday with your opinion.

I own a small mechanical company. My main work is service and system replacements. I have never been a believer in duct cleaning. The company I worked for before had our duct man come out and do my house. I saw no difference. Preventive maintance is what I recomend. Remove fan and clean, seal fan compartment to prevent dust from being pulled in, filters I install media filters, they are 5″ thick and pleated. I have tested them to make sure static presure was not a issue. Heat exchangers and AC coils need to be cleaned. I will tell you this to do a good cleaning I usually spent 1-2 hrs, When I’m finished I would not have a problem eating my diner on the system. Good filters, clean system and properly tuned up are my recomdation to anyone. I’ve included my email feel free to contact me with any questions. winkcfd@yahoo.com
1. Ducts need cleaning mostly because they were not installed properly. There should be regulatory inpection and approval of clean and proper duct works on new houses. I was extremely unpset when I looked and found significant amounts of construction dust in parts of the ducts in my new house. There is apparently no way to hold the bullder to be responsible for clean ducts.
You and your family spend hours sitting on your favorite chairs, couches and sectionals. Over time, dander and body oil become trapped in the upholstery, but with regular cleanings you can keep these delicate fabrics looking, feeling and smelling great. We examine your furniture and select the best process to safely clean and protect any kind of upholstery, including leather. 
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